Starting up again after a long absence

Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 3:40 pm

Hi everybody, new to this board. I played Duelmaster a few years ago, but when I started a family I kinda dropped it. Anyway, I have just recieved a new team, and thought maybe you all could help me flesh it out. I am very rusty on everything and would appreciate the help. Here are the stats:

9,11,5,10,8,10,17
11,13,13,13,14,3,3
14,6,6,15,11,13,5
8,8,11,4,17,11,11
5,15,11,9,9,9,12

Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 4:05 pm

Cool. Good to have you back. If you need any more help, let me know directly. You can email me at jameslay@chartertn.net

As for your roll ups....

9-11-5-10-8-10-17 = 13-11-5-15-9-10-21 AB

11-13-13-13-14-3-3 = 12-13-13-17-17-3-9 LU/WOS

14-6-6-15-11-13-5 = 14-6-6-21-17-13-7 LU/ST/SL Very nice....

8-8-11-4-17-11-11 = 11-8-11-9-21-11-11 BA/LU (Run it a couple of times, then DA it.)

5-15-11-9-9-9-12 = 11-15-11-15-9-10-13 PR

Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 4:26 pm

Thanks for the quick reply Apex, I will try them out and see what happens.

Advanced Expert Poster Joined: Nov 04, 2002 Posts: 132

Killer! I just came back about 1.5 years ago, and it seems more and more of us are returning to the game. Welcome!

Here's some alternatives to Apex's designs:

9-11-5-15-14-10-20 PR/PS/TP I'd probably go with TP for the fun of it. Train to 9-11-5-15-15-10-21 (and STR trains if he needs normal damage)

11-13-13-17-17-4-9 LU

15-6-6-21-17-14-5 BA (Apex hates bashers!)

13-14-11-4-20-11-11 TP (Train to 15-15-11-5-21-11-13)

9-15-11-15-10-9-15 PR

- Dreihdenflahg

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:11 am

You're right. I hate them. And I certainly wouldn't waste the RU on a BA. That would be a total waste of a good rollup. Make it a lunger/slasher/striker and be happy with it. Smile

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 8:47 am

Thanks Dreihdenflahg for your advice. I was hoping for at least one good slasher (my favorite) but I dont see any naturals, guess I can train one up.

Apex, why dont you like bashers?

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:25 am

BTW, Osirc, you know about burning skills, right? Just don't want you to be surprised later if you didn't know and wanted to avoid that.

Welcome back! I'm back 3 months after 5 years away myself. I'm also originally from Arkansas (Fayetteville/Springdale, Siloam Springs, Gravette, Rogers, Bentonville areas) myself, though I did live in N. Little Rock for a couple years in grade school.

Oh, and as far as design advice:
If you don't like to burn skills then I like Apex's AB on the first one. Don't have much experience with PRs and keep hearing they're not competitive higher in ADM (if that is a concern for you). I love TPs and PSs with TPs being good for padding your record with wins. I have never managed to keep a good AB alive either and these days prefer those more.

I prefer Dreih's lunger, hate bashers too, love Dreih's TP idea (you'll get more life out of it that way) unless you're planning to DA warriors until you find a godling.
Not much difference between the two PRs in my book, may come down to how many starting skills it should get between the two designs (and I don't have time to look it up at the moment).

Bert / Darkfist

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 10:46 am

Darkfist, I am from the delta, right on the mighty Mississippi, but was born around Stuttgart AR. I dont have a clue as to what you mean by burning skills. The last time I played I only managed to get one fighter to ADM, and he was a slasher. Old age and to much hard living have clouded my memory so that I cant remember his stats to save my life.

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:33 am

9,11,5,10,8,10,17
11,13,13,13,14,3,3
14,6,6,15,11,13,5
8,8,11,4,17,11,11
5,15,11,9,9,9,12

Looking for a Slasher you say. Well I think you have one here

13-11-5-15-9-10-21 AB

11-13-13-17-17-3-9 LU/PL

14-6-6-21-15-13-9 SL (Train ST to 15 for the Battle Axe,1 ATT and 1 PAR skill will be burned by this, for example)

11-14-11-5-21-11-11 TP or 11-8-11-9-21-11-13 LU

9-16-11-15-9-9-15 PR or send it to the DA and look for something better!

Took 8 years off myself (formerly from DM14 Tobir) and came back a little over 2.5 years ago! Happy hunting and good luck on the sands!

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 12:48 pm

Osirc wrote:

Hi everybody, new to this board. I played Duelmaster a few years ago, but when I started a family I kinda dropped it. Anyway, I have just recieved a new team, and thought maybe you all could help me flesh it out. I am very rusty on everything and would appreciate the help. Here are the stats:

9,11,5,10,8,10,17
11,13,13,13,14,3,3
14,6,6,15,11,13,5
8,8,11,4,17,11,11
5,15,11,9,9,9,12

Sorry I'm a bit late on this one, been sorta occupied. (Had some teeth pulled, and pain does not Ichy a happy camper make.)

9-11-5-10-8-10-17 -> 13-11-5-15-9-10-21 AB Not good, and if he didn't start with some HUGE bonuses, I'd DA him.

11-13-13-13-14-3-3 -> 11-13-13-17-17-3-9, probably lunger or TP.

14-6-6-15-11-13-5 -> 14-6-6-21-17-13-7 LU You should get good endurance by training 1 ST and 1 CN, although the ST burns an attack and parry. If you're lucky, he'll start good endurance.

8-8-11-4-17-11-11 -> Design as you feel like, hand him a torch, and DA. Not quite enough CN to make a rookie scum.

5-15-11-9-9-9-12 -> This guy doesn't have what it takes to make a passable 15/15 warrior. I'd DA this one, too.

As to burning skills, here's the explanation:

When a warrior is designed, he can learn skills until his skill in that area is equal to his base + 20 or Expert, whichever is higher. (For the rest of this, we'll ignore the expert thing - you won't run into it very soon.) So say your lunger starts with 16 attack skills - he can learn 20 more as skills, putting him at a total of 36.

Simple so far, right? Here's where it gets a bit more difficult.

When you raise certain stats (ST, WT, WL, SP, DF), certain values will apply skills to your warrior. No stat gives all skills, and not every raise gives skills.

You can find a decent skill chart on Terrablood's Site, on this page. The top four entries are skill charts.

Anyway, the key here is that these stat raises apply skills to your warrior no matter how many skills he's learned already. So take your lunger - you train skills until he has learned all 20 attack skills, giving him 36 total. Then you raise his wit to 21. Presto, your warrior now has 38 attack skills.

However, if you raise wit to 21 before he learns all 20, here's what happens: say you do it his first fight. He starts with 16 attack, you raise wit to 21, and now he has 18 attack. Then you train skills - he STILL can only learn skills until his attack is 20 above where he started, so he can only learn a total of 18 attack now. His cap is still 36, after all.

What happened is you burnt those two attack skills - by making the train, you more or less permanently cost yourself two attack.

Now, there is an arena where you can get burnt skills back - it's called Gateway, and it's the EXTREME top end of the game. The best of the best play there, and it's like the Roach Motel - once a warrior is in there, he may NEVER leave. A good warrior can probably reach Gateway in 3 years.

So, the choice for you is this: does burning the skills help more than it'll cost you during your warrior's ADM phase? If you don't plan on running the warrior in ADM, by all means, burn him to a crispy brown. (I'll burn strikers and bashers in a heartbeat.) If you DO plan on running him, make sure that the benefit outweighs the cost - such as getting good endurance on that lunger design above, or getting a 21 with with the amazing learning that goes with it.

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 2:53 pm

Thanks for going over all that Ichabod, I can see I need to go do my homework now.

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:06 pm

I also see you're into the SCA & smithing, very cool (never did get around to joining but have quite a few friends who were deep into it).

I've been playing since the late 80s but I felt like a total newbie coming back again. Visit all the sites, read all the info you can, it will definitely help you be competitive again in a hurry.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:10 am

I love this part, so I'm going to give yet another take on the numbers. I was about a 5 year manager back in the '80s and returned a bit after finding and joining this site (date to the side there) so I know just how you feel. The charts are a god-send, but there's a lot there and believe me you won't get it all the first time through. Just come back with questions and use e-mail too. The people are tremendously helpful and it will cut months off the time catching up on the game.

I've spent design time with Ichabod (until he's probably pulled out some of his hair) so I'll use those numbers for my starting point.

9-11-5-10-8-10-17 -> 13-11-5-15-9-10-21 AB This is what you might call a basic arena warrior (due to the lowish will) although you might push him through the freshman (lowest ADM) tourney if you fell in love with him for some reason. Aside from general info, I mention this because it means you can choose any style. (At the very top lunger and AB are what you want and perhaps half the styles are effectively useless) To me, this still needs to be an AB or PR. It's playable I believe but won't be great (I believe Ichabod calls them "almost useful") Due to the excellent base skills for the two styles, I'd probably run this - at least until I knew if it was "bonused" (extra skills beyond the expected for the stats due to having high numbers in stats deemed 'key' by the game designer for the style) and how much. Due to my own preferences, I'd send it in as a PR and take it a step at a time deciding whether to keep it.

11-13-13-13-14-3-3 -> 11-13-13-17-17-3-9, Hmm, he missed a point, probably on pain meds for the teeth. It's a toss-up where to put it on this design anyway. As with all of Ichabod's designs this would work fine, but I might try something different because the lunger is an armor wearing finesse version to me and I'm thinking you might want to play a bit before you try one like that. (Again either style is fine, put the point in str for lunger and con for TP I think if you use this set up) I might try it this way: 11-13-13-17-20-3-7 TP you can get tremendous damage taking with two con trains (no skills in con to burn) and at a later date when most or all skills are learned you could get a nice little surge training your wit and especially will (many managers do this just before or during a tourney trying for a prize).
P.S.If you don't expect to play in ADM for a long while, if ever, you'd have the added option of training will to 21 immediately for a big burst of skills.

14-6-6-15-11-13-5 -> 14-6-6-21-17-13-7 LU You should get good endurance by training 1 ST and 1 CN, although the ST burns an attack and parry. If you're lucky, he'll start good endurance.

I can only agree, as beautiful a basher as this is, it would still be a basher and lunger just has too many advantages (especially 21/17 lungers)

8-8-11-4-17-11-11 -> Design as you feel like, hand him a torch, and DA. Not quite enough CN to make a rookie scum.

Ichabod means it's not "bricklike" enough for the Rookie tourney and it's not. But Dreihden's TP design would win a good bit in most arenas (though not every one) and might be worth a try if you'd rather see it fight a few turns before deciding to DA it.

5-15-11-9-9-9-12 -> This guy doesn't have what it takes to make a passable 15/15 warrior. I'd DA this one, too.

Another warrior that is just mmm, mmm close to good but may well be just a pud no matter what you do. I'd still send it in as: 8-15-11-15-9-9-17 PR (Ichabod loathes 15 wits but they don't all suck) so I'd give this a long look and perhaps fight a few turns to decide its fate.

Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary and I don't pretend my advice here or elsewhere to be superior to what is offered by others. I do find that it helps to hear how several managers view a design, and sometimes you'll find that your own areas of expertise (and everyone develops some) match a set of ideas better than they work with the most often given replies.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:47 am

In regards to 15 wits....

Unless their other stats are perfect, they suck. Badly - learning 1 to 1.5 skills per turn just doesn't cut it in today's DM.

I *DO* run the occasional 15 wit warrior, but they're few and far between. Right now, the three I'm running are:

5-9-10-15-15-9-21 AB (TV'd Dead Apprentices last year, currently 17 WT)

9-8-6-15-21-8-17 PL (Now 15-3 as 10-9-6-17-21-8-17, with good damage/end)

11-3-12-15-21-9-13 LU (Currently ADM with 17 wit, sentimental favorite - this was my very first "good" warrior on my first team.)

I'm sure you see the pattern in my treatment of the 15 wit guys I DO run....

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:44 am

Thanks again guys for all your input. I like to see as many different ideas as possible. And I figure if 3 or more of you all agree on the same design for a paticular warrior, then it must be a good one. When I played before, I didnt see near the level of strategy I do now. Ofcourse, there were only about as third as many arenas then too. I noticed a couple of people suggested slashers that didnt have very high deftness. When I played before, high deftness was considered an absolute MSUT for a slasher. Are there other attributes that can offset this now?