TEAMS, MANAGERS, AND ALLIANCES IN 81

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:59 am

Hammer_Minister_of_War wrote:

I have played DM consistently for 10+ years [counting running on maintenance when both active and almost retired from the game!]

Asking for Managerial/Stable info has been a Common Practice ALL Those Years [I quickly picked up on it from other Veterans at the time!]

NEVER has there EVER Been Such an Uproar!

Not even a Peep!

Not talking about revealing Real World identities!

Manager personaes!

Makes me wonder where some of you guys were [unless NOT Active!], but I do know there are managers who DO NOT EVEN READ Newsletter Posts, only their Fights [according to comments gleaned over the years!]

And I Know this Question has been asked in Chimlevtal DM 31 and Manager/Stable lists were published in DM 31 and NOTHING WAS SAID about that when it was done!

I've been playing for 22 years. 31 Chimlevtal (or any other established arena) and your new non-tournament arenas are apples & oranges right now IMO.
The point was: what if a person NEVER revealed in the newsletters or to the spymaster (or to anyone) their manager name? Then, LIKE IN 31, the spymaster would print "?" next to the team name. Period. That has happened forever, even the last time in 31. There is a team in 31 that has over 110 fights. I don't know the manager's name. (believe me, I make it my point to find out each manager's name) Obviously the spymaster does not either as a few months ago, when a list came out, the team name had a "?" next to it. If a manager doesn't reveal or want it revealed then there is no name attached. I've seen this happen alot. It is the center of the topic here I do believe.
Also, IRT REAL WORLD names posted. Deke posted them here on forums. He quickly edited/retracted that. I asked him about it. Didn't really get a satisfactory answer why REAL WORLD player names were posted on forums. This should not be done. My other question was how a non-employee got the info. I'm not making a huge issue, I'm just asking some questions and adding to the conversation. No one is yelling here, we are just talking. When people invest time, money and effort in a game, they are entitled to ask a few questions and get some clarifications.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:50 am

KnightHospitaller wrote:

Hammer_Minister_of_War wrote:

I have played DM consistently for 10+ years [counting running on maintenance when both active and almost retired from the game!]

Asking for Managerial/Stable info has been a Common Practice ALL Those Years [I quickly picked up on it from other Veterans at the time!]

NEVER has there EVER Been Such an Uproar!

Not even a Peep!

Not talking about revealing Real World identities!

Manager personaes!

Makes me wonder where some of you guys were [unless NOT Active!], but I do know there are managers who DO NOT EVEN READ Newsletter Posts, only their Fights [according to comments gleaned over the years!]

And I Know this Question has been asked in Chimlevtal DM 31 and Manager/Stable lists were published in DM 31 and NOTHING WAS SAID about that when it was done!

I've been playing for 22 years. 31 Chimlevtal (or any other established arena) and your new non-tournament arenas are apples & oranges right now IMO.
The point was: what if a person NEVER revealed in the newsletters or to the spymaster (or to anyone) their manager name? Then, LIKE IN 31, the spymaster would print "?" next to the team name. Period. That has happened forever, even the last time in 31. There is a team in 31 that has over 110 fights. I don't know the manager's name. (believe me, I make it my point to find out each manager's name) Obviously the spymaster does not either as a few months ago, when a list came out, the team name had a "?" next to it. If a manager doesn't reveal or want it revealed then there is no name attached. I've seen this happen alot. It is the center of the topic here I do believe.
Also, IRT REAL WORLD names posted. Deke posted them here on forums. He quickly edited/retracted that. I asked him about it. Didn't really get a satisfactory answer why REAL WORLD player names were posted on forums. This should not be done. My other question was how a non-employee got the info. I'm not making a huge issue, I'm just asking some questions and adding to the conversation. No one is yelling here, we are just talking. When people invest time, money and effort in a game, they are entitled to ask a few questions and get some clarifications.

Valid Questions Indeed

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:53 am

KnightHospitaller wrote:

Hammer_Minister_of_War wrote:

I have played DM consistently for 10+ years [counting running on maintenance when both active and almost retired from the game!]

Asking for Managerial/Stable info has been a Common Practice ALL Those Years [I quickly picked up on it from other Veterans at the time!]

NEVER has there EVER Been Such an Uproar!

Not even a Peep!

Not talking about revealing Real World identities!

Manager personaes!

Makes me wonder where some of you guys were [unless NOT Active!], but I do know there are managers who DO NOT EVEN READ Newsletter Posts, only their Fights [according to comments gleaned over the years!]

And I Know this Question has been asked in Chimlevtal DM 31 and Manager/Stable lists were published in DM 31 and NOTHING WAS SAID about that when it was done!

I've been playing for 22 years. 31 Chimlevtal (or any other established arena) and your new non-tournament arenas are apples & oranges right now IMO.
The point was: what if a person NEVER revealed in the newsletters or to the spymaster (or to anyone) their manager name? Then, LIKE IN 31, the spymaster would print "?" next to the team name. Period. That has happened forever, even the last time in 31. There is a team in 31 that has over 110 fights. I don't know the manager's name. (believe me, I make it my point to find out each manager's name) Obviously the spymaster does not either as a few months ago, when a list came out, the team name had a "?" next to it. If a manager doesn't reveal or want it revealed then there is no name attached. I've seen this happen alot. It is the center of the topic here I do believe.
Also, IRT REAL WORLD names posted. Deke posted them here on forums. He quickly edited/retracted that. I asked him about it. Didn't really get a satisfactory answer why REAL WORLD player names were posted on forums. This should not be done. My other question was how a non-employee got the info. I'm not making a huge issue, I'm just asking some questions and adding to the conversation. No one is yelling here, we are just talking. When people invest time, money and effort in a game, they are entitled to ask a few questions and get some clarifications.

I think you have a legitimate gripe. Personally I don't care if people know my teams, but I can understand why some people may wish to remain anonymous, even if just for RP reasons. (I.e. a 'Delarq' manager running a team in a 'Free Blades' arena...)

Besides that, the fact here is that I don't think RSI's job should include publishing manager's information unless it is publicly known. I mean, if I sign my personals with Master Beru at some point, then they can point back to that and say, 'He declared himself'. But if I have not mentioned it, I would expect that I could remain anonymous until I decided otherwise. I have never seen anything which said it was an 'expectation' that managers names be known. Anonymity was part of why the Diplomatic note system was put into place was my impression.

MB

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:44 am

Nomad wrote:

Ok, I'm a bit confused. Having only been back in the game for about 6 months after a 14 year break, I was under the impression that anyone in any arena could request that Ed. publish a managers list in the newsletter. I've seen it done in several arenas recently. I'd never heard of it being an issue.

What had seemed obvious to me (To me mind you, I'm not saying it really is obvious - or even true) was that the list Ed. published was of managers personas. Since I go by Nomad, that is how my teams are identified. It appeared to me that if I wanted to hide my identity (And the thought did occur to me, even though I ultimately chose to be known.) all I needed was to pick a new manager identity and notify RSI of what my new name for that arena would be. That way if Ed publishes a list identifying the Dragonbane Guild as being run by "Socrates" nobody would make the connection with Nomad.

Am I wrong, or would this have worked in Shadowspire? Are those who were outed guilty of just not conceiling their identity well? (Oh boy, that could get some responses, but I think you understand the point...) (Also remember, we all had at least a one turn notice that the list would be published since the request showed up inthe turn one newsletter - with a response saying it would come out later.) Have such listings caused problems elsewhere?

I have no real opinion on the issue, but am rather curious, so I thought I'd ask questions like my new alter-ego, "Socrates." Very Happy

Don't know that much about the genesis of this thread, but it does seem a lot overblown. Firstly, I agree that RW manager information being published should definitely not happen.

But, I'm with Nomad here. It's pretty well known that you can ask for a manager list and get one at any given time. I'm confused by the furor over this. Someone seeking anonymity need merely reach out to Ed. asking for another manager name or none at all to be listed. And the list isn't culled from personal ads and the like. It is something that Ed. has spent fairly substantial time keeping track of as a courtesy for the players, listing manager names and alliances for tourney listings, etc.

If you don't want to be identified by your manager name, merely let Ed. know and she'll be happy to list it however you like. Simple. For anyone not clear about how this works, I can see being a little chagrined, but impugning Ed.'s integrity somehow is really out of line for anyone who knows Sue and how hard she works for all of us.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:50 am

Sentinel wrote:

. . .but impugning Ed.'s integrity somehow is really out of line for anyone who knows Sue and how hard she works for all of us.

Yeah, this is what got my fires a-burning.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:04 am

Darque wrote:

Sentinel wrote:

. . .but impugning Ed.'s integrity somehow is really out of line for anyone who knows Sue and how hard she works for all of us.

Yeah, this is what got my fires a-burning.

Well, I sure hope I didn't come across as "impugning Ed's integrity." The folks at RSI have been good to me and I really have no issue w/manager's lists being posted. My point was a "?" being listed if a manager has never said who they are or have asked not to be listed. A good example, a team in the Chimlevtal HOF, The Dagarath Guards, never had a manager name printed or proclaimed. I went threw every newsletter and asked everyone I knew who the manager was and no one knew, including the spymaster. Lists came out with "?" etc. I think that manager should be in the HOF, he posted lots of personals, but always signed with a team/warrior name. His team is in the HOF but not him. I have to respect he didn't have a manager name or didn't care to divulge it. He was an awesome manager too.

So, again, I've nothing but respect for the folks at RSI. I'm not on them at all. Just talking and still wonder about those RW names being posted here. I'll try to be quiet now. Confused

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:21 am

I don't think my comments would be misunderstood as "impugning Ed's integrity", but just in case, let me state, "I have no issue with RSI about their publishing MY information." I can't comment for others, except based on what they have stated here.

I do think that if someone 'perceives' that their information should not have been posted that they have a right to raise the question to RSI. What happens from there... Can't say.

I don't think it would be taken poorly by anyone that I have talked with over at RSI. If it was a mistake, my experience is that they will admit it. If it is a misperception, my experience is that they will admit that too... Razz

MB

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:33 am

Sentinel wrote:

Don't know that much about the genesis of this thread, but it does seem a lot overblown.

I've been quiet for so long I had to find something to complain about.

Sentinel wrote:

I can see being a little chagrined, but impugning Ed.'s integrity somehow is really out of line for anyone who knows Sue and how hard she works for all of us.

I don't think anyone here was questioning Ed's integrity. I think most know the good job Sue does. I was irritated that I was identified. I had never posted in 81 PAs and the only way I think my manager could be put with my team is by my acct#. I will probably give her a good ribbing in the PAs. But there's no hard feeling against her. I will definately tell her in the future if I don't want my name to be known.

I do remember seeing real world names being posted and would like to know how and why.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:56 am

We guess we should chime in.

I all other arenas, we do not feel it is necessary or appropriate to "post" The Consortium Manager name. Most are known. Some are not.

However, in DM81, we felt it was necessary and appropriate to post the manager name and assure that it was identified as Consortium - for two reasons (1) control - to make sure and allow the Commission/Player Committee to verify compliance to the rules (2) specialty - the arena was special, with special rules and expectations

We did not know there was, or was not, a rule requiring this.

In retrospect, we do agree that it is appropriate that the team/owner are identified in Shadowspire, and we have no problem if that is the expectation henceforth.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:19 am

The Consortium wrote:

In retrospect, we do agree that it is appropriate that the team/owner are identified in Shadowspire, and we have no problem if that is the expectation henceforth.

My point is if that was the rule it should've been made known to all before the arena opened not on Turn 3. When you say owner you do you mean manager name or Real World Name?

Off topic, I'm still bummed about the death of Karma Chameleon. After that TOGS just wasn't the same. I believe that was on my challenge. No hard feelings.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:17 pm

The Consortium wrote:

We guess we should chime in.

In all other arenas, we do not feel it is necessary or appropriate to "post" The Consortium Manager name. Most are known. Some are not.

However, in DM81, we felt it was necessary and appropriate to post the manager name and assure that it was identified as Consortium - for two reasons (1) control - to make sure and allow the Commission/Player Committee to verify compliance to the rules (2) specialty - the arena was special, with special rules and expectations

We did not know there was, or was not, a rule requiring this.

In retrospect, we do agree that it is appropriate that the team/owner are identified in Shadowspire, and we have no problem if that is the expectation henceforth.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:19 pm

Elephant wrote:

The Consortium wrote:

In retrospect, we do agree that it is appropriate that the team/owner are identified in Shadowspire, and we have no problem if that is the expectation henceforth.

My point is if that was the rule it should've been made known to all before the arena opened not on Turn 3. When you say owner you do you mean manager name or Real World Name?

Off topic, I'm still bummed about the death of Karma Chameleon. After that TOGS just wasn't the same. I believe that was on my challenge. No hard feelings.

Glad to hear that. There wasn't really much we could do about it. We are sorry it happened.

ArchMaster Poster Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 1316

Sentinel wrote:

And the list isn't culled from personal ads and the like. It is something that Ed. has spent fairly substantial time keeping track of as a courtesy for the players, listing manager names and alliances for tourney listings, etc.

I believe this knowledge would have quelled the discussion and sent it on a different route. I know I was under the assumption the in arena manager persona was kept under wraps.

Sentinel wrote:

I can see being a little chagrined, but impugning Ed.'s integrity somehow is really out of line for anyone who knows Sue and how hard she works for all of us.

I didn't take any of the counter arguments about the situation as impugning Ed's integrity, just questioning how the list came about when the assumption would be if you weren't announcing the info within the arena it wouldn't be listed.

I think this helps diffuse the situation completely and those who want to remain anonymous will know how to go about it in the future.

It's unfortunate the discussion became so heated.

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:36 pm

Well, I think we were a bit bored so yelling abit helped vent some tension. Laughing

It still means I telegraphed a challenge last turn and Swinetiger got me! Laughing

I'll have to be more careful. I am not using my Aimed Blow this turn. Very Happy

ArchMaster Poster Joined: Sep 05, 2005 Posts: 1316

The Consortium wrote:

In retrospect, we do agree that it is appropriate that the team/owner are identified in Shadowspire, and we have no problem if that is the expectation henceforth.

I'd have to say if the manager didn't want his persona known to the general public they should have the right to remain anonymous except to the PC. But what the PC affirms should be put in place, even if it is to the disdain of those in or wanting to join the arena.

Hopefully the PC will address this issue and maybe be proactive in thinking of future problems and coming up with resolutions instead of being a reactionary group. Of course I know the PC won't catch 100% of things before they become problems.