Game changes? What game changes?!

Unchartered Poster Joined: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 3

Holy smokes! This game hasn't changed in 20 years!

Boys, I played this game when I was in 8th grade, played in Arena 7 then started on turn 1 of Arena 13 (which doesn't exist anymore, it seems).

The thing that kills me isn't that people still play this, it is that so little change has taken place. Understand that I really, really liked this game. With that said, I'm almost mad at RSI. Somebody has obviously come to the conclusion that this is a cash cow...keep milking the players, and give them as little as possible in return.

Now, I'm sure managers out there can point out how much they get from the game or from each other. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is that I'm kicking myself for not following RSI's example -- I needed to start a company with a few recent grad programmers, have them bang out code for 6-12 months, fire them, hire a few minimum wage data entry ladies, and then let the players keep the money flowing in. Obviously it works!

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:16 am

P

PappyBlueRibs wrote:

Holy smokes! This game hasn't changed in 20 years!

Boys, I played this game when I was in 8th grade, played in Arena 7 then started on turn 1 of Arena 13 (which doesn't exist anymore, it seems).

The thing that kills me isn't that people still play this, it is that so little change has taken place. Understand that I really, really liked this game. With that said, I'm almost mad at RSI. Somebody has obviously come to the conclusion that this is a cash cow...keep milking the players, and give them as little as possible in return.

Now, I'm sure managers out there can point out how much they get from the game or from each other. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is that I'm kicking myself for not following RSI's example -- I needed to start a company with a few recent grad programmers, have them bang out code for 6-12 months, fire them, hire a few minimum wage data entry ladies, and then let the players keep the money flowing in. Obviously it works!

Sorry to hear you feel that way and with such conviction. We, too, have been around 20 years, and while we have our gripes and groans about the game, our feeling is that is has changed significantly over the years. RSI has done a lot, but in retrospect it would be easy to say more is necessary. Probably the greatest change is the Tournaments, and particularly offering prizes of significance, which, led by RSI, has made the tournaments/sandbagging/optimum warrior/godling/bonuses so very important at the expense of arena play and role playing. But like many, we enjoy and linger on .......

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:37 am

PappyBlueRibs wrote:

Holy smokes! This game hasn't changed in 20 years!

Boys, I played this game when I was in 8th grade, played in Arena 7 then started on turn 1 of Arena 13 (which doesn't exist anymore, it seems).

The thing that kills me isn't that people still play this, it is that so little change has taken place. Understand that I really, really liked this game. With that said, I'm almost mad at RSI. Somebody has obviously come to the conclusion that this is a cash cow...keep milking the players, and give them as little as possible in return.

Now, I'm sure managers out there can point out how much they get from the game or from each other. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is that I'm kicking myself for not following RSI's example -- I needed to start a company with a few recent grad programmers, have them bang out code for 6-12 months, fire them, hire a few minimum wage data entry ladies, and then let the players keep the money flowing in. Obviously it works!

**If you haven't played in so long how do you know nothing has changed genius?

Unchartered Poster Joined: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 3

Genious?! Man, I wasn't even complaining about you playing the game. Read it again and again until that sinks in.

As far as what I know about the current status of the game, all I have to do is
1. read the current rules (where they typed CTRL-H and replaced "Duelmasters" with "Duel2"). Nothing in them has changed since I left.
2. read the current newsletters (the ones where 99% is created by a simple Visual Basic app). Nothing in them has changed since I left.

You can reply with an insult if you like. I'm not even focusing on you playing the game. I'm talking about the game itself.

The biggest change in the game is this web-site itself, and that's not good news.

ArchMaster Poster Joined: Jul 17, 2002 Posts: 1054

PappyBlueRibs wrote:

I'm talking about the game itself.

The biggest change in the game is this web-site itself, and that's not good news.

Everything you mention is not actually the game. That's like taking a look at the "new" box of a board game and saying, well they only changed the box and didn't change anything inside, without opening the box.

Now there have not been any drastic changes to the game since the mid 80's (except for the whole Gateway opening and closing, and changes to the top end), but to say the only changes they made was the name and this website without actually playing the game is ignorant.

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:06 pm

Welcome back anyhow. Don't let these ruffians change your mind about playing again. There are changes but you have to delve alittle deeper than turn sheets and such. I don't think its a cash cow either, in fact I think RSI runs a fine line that keeps getting thinner.

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:08 pm

What kind of changes were you expecting, hoping for? Changes to this game have to come slow or not-at-all. As with any game, when you make any major changes, you will always lose some of your existing player base. (Some of whom have 15+ years invested in warriors) One reason that this game has lasted so long is that it hasn't changed. It's a fine balancing act between keeping your existing customer base happy and making things fresh enough for them as well.

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:42 pm

PappyBlueRibs wrote:

Holy smokes! This game hasn't changed in 20 years!

Boys, I played this game when I was in 8th grade, played in Arena 7 then started on turn 1 of Arena 13 (which doesn't exist anymore, it seems).

The thing that kills me isn't that people still play this, it is that so little change has taken place. Understand that I really, really liked this game. With that said, I'm almost mad at RSI. Somebody has obviously come to the conclusion that this is a cash cow...keep milking the players, and give them as little as possible in return.

Now, I'm sure managers out there can point out how much they get from the game or from each other. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is that I'm kicking myself for not following RSI's example -- I needed to start a company with a few recent grad programmers, have them bang out code for 6-12 months, fire them, hire a few minimum wage data entry ladies, and then let the players keep the money flowing in. Obviously it works!

dude, are you playing again or not? if not your two cents are worth not even that to me.

youngblood

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:17 am

youngblood wrote:

dude, are you playing again or not? if not you two cents are worth not even that if not.

youngblood

Hehehe...that kinda sounds like some PDiddy English!

Sorry, YB, couldn't resist!

Polarius

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:35 am

is that better Razz

Unchartered Poster Joined: Dec 12, 2004 Posts: 3

What other game in this genre hasn't changed over the years? Dungeons & Dragons, Ultima, Everquest...

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this topic. I really didn't mean to upset anyone -- if you enjoy the game then great, play it.

My observation was 100% focused on RSI as a business, and my surprise at it's lack of change. Hell, a sharp 16 year old kid could do the programming for Duelmasters over a summer vacation. Now, if I were the owner of a company that could be blown out of the water like that, I'd be afraid. I think that the only thing that separates RSI from a program on some 16 year old's computer are you guys, the players. Now, if I were the owner of RSI, that would make me REALLY scared, since you guys can be won over by another company with a program that is just as good, only with many more bells and whistles...assuming, of course, that if there was a better game out there, you'd play it.

Then again, maybe the owners of RSI are smarter than I give them credit of being. Maybe ol' time players are reluctant to leave the game because then they'd have to kiss good-bye the money and time they'd "invested" in the game. Heck, maybe the whole thing is a psychological experiment in cognitive dissonance or abusive relationships.

Ha! I love it! Now it has become much more interesting!

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:13 pm

Actually I think Everquest and Ultima are great examples of how you change something the wrong way. Both enacted too much change too fast and as a result suffered big erosions in their player base with each change that they made. The online version of Ultima went under. Die hard RPG fans of the earlier games panned the later ones. How many times did D&D go under?

The difference with PC Games is that genre is "in", so they can enact mass change that lose their player base and attract new ones. If those don't work, it's not too hard to try over. A PBM company has to use a different business model. The fact that it's one of the few PBM companies still in existence and making a profit (in a stagnant market) shows that they are doing something right.

Again, what sort of changes were you expecting to see? You've been vague on that.

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:25 am

Managerr wrote:

Actually I think Everquest and Ultima are great examples of how you change something the wrong way. Both enacted too much change too fast and as a result suffered big erosions in their player base with each change that they made. The online version of Ultima went under. Die hard RPG fans of the earlier games panned the later ones. How many times did D&D go under?

The difference with PC Games is that genre is "in", so they can enact mass change that lose their player base and attract new ones. If those don't work, it's not too hard to try over. A PBM company has to use a different business model. The fact that it's one of the few PBM companies still in existence and making a profit (in a stagnant market) shows that they are doing something right.

Again, what sort of changes were you expecting to see? You've been vague on that.

We Consortium Folk echo Manager's astute words. There is a strong border-line between wanting more bells and whistles out of DM, and an admiration for their intelligence in "milking" it and continuing to attract most of thei client base. The real question might be, what client base are they going to attract with this game if it isn't those "hooked" or near hooked currently?

We are certainly in the group that liked the older DM game better, because we enjoy the arenas and roleplaying and "ads" most. But without the "tournament prize" change to the game, emphasizing tournaments above all, we truly wonder if the old game we most desired would be available. We admire the fact that the wizards and wizardettes of Tempe have been able to provide a srvice which contains our game of old and the game of new.

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:28 am

Pappy, Did you enjoy the game when you played way back when?
So did I!
Come on back RSI needs the money!

Change is for people that cant win the current way.

only change i want to see
War in IRAQ... Finish them or leave. Standing a post there doesnt help.
come home or H-Bomb. OR BOTH..
BCS.....it sucks! we need a playoff system. Oklahoma will dismantle USC.. Auburn will win and we will be stuck again. But if Utah wins? Do they get a trophy?

sorry guys let me move the Soap Box
now back to Duelmasters!

RSI has done a great job of keeping the game going with little to no changes. However this game is pretty straight forward. Not alot of Changes can be made. There was the spin off idea to take the game another way. That never happened. RSI has made the changes that they could to make the game better. kind of leveled the playing field a little.
Managerr is right! (usually is). PC/Internet for the most part is hip.
or as he put it "in" Lets face it, this game is much like me old and out of style. I think that they put a drug in that big ugly envelope. Oh well im hooked.

Oh yeah pappy where can I sign up for your game also? I can play both!
please let me.. I can send you money.. can you host a tourney? FTF?

please send 5.00 to
Managerr Fan Club
C/O JonBRogers
1215 managerrisgod Ave.
Reallykissing, AS.

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:06 am

Jon B
Sorry about killing your girl in Youngbloods contest, stupid warriors kill when I say dont kill and wouldn't swat a fly if I want them to kill. Whats a manager to do. So any insight into what kind of warrior you'll BF with Very Happy

Fizban manager of VC Rules